More on 180
Here's another set of comments from my friend and fellow reef aquarist, Joe Jaworski.
Josh,
IMHO, the way I would approach this problem is by process of elimination.
- When did the problem start? What changed in the aquarium (more/less fish, decor, new equipment, change in husbandry, etc.) say +/- 3 weeks around the date when you first noticed the problem?
- For bioload, do you believe that if you had another tank the exact same size but was bare bottom and void of decor, would your existing filtration equipment be adequate?
Here are some of my other thoughts:
High ammonia with zero nitrites can only be caused by three things:
1) Bacteria population are low and yet established(not likely in your setup).
2) Not enough surface area to maintain bacteria populations (not likely either, unless the tank has ALWAYS had an ammonia problem).
3) A natural or man made bactericide that is killing off the bacteria.
I would bet on number 3. Perhaps heavy metals or other toxins in the sand are finally starting to leach. Also, city water may have changed in copper level, trihalomethanes, or other substances that act as antibiotics against nitrosomas.
My reply via email:
Hey Joe,
Thanks for the insightful comment on the blog. I think you nailed it on the head.
One, we can rule out the water as the other tanks are fine, the bacteria colonies perfectly on track. I even tested them all after major water changes -- a couple hours later and a couple days -- and no ammonia, no nitrite, some nitrates, right where it needed to be.
I spent a couple days thinking about what's changed and came up with two glaring issues:
One, I had used Sera "Toxivec" in some abundance when I realized I had not originally cycled the tank properly. This chemical made things works and may have screwed up something... it's been so long ago and I've done so many water changes, some up to 50%, it should be out of the system. But it's something I did that could have changed the chemistry.
Another thing, which I think is more likely, is I treated the tank with aquarium salt to prevent an ich outbreak. I used a lot... way too much. Fish were fine, but after awhile I got salt creep marching out of my cannister filter. Not good.
I diluted the water with about 4 50 percent water changes, 2 a week, and have done numerous other water changes over time, so it should be pure freshwater. However, I have not done a massive, 80 or 90% water change.
That's about it, though. I bought an aquaclear filter over ebay and also had a broken aquaclear motor replaced from the company. I don't see how that could cause these problems, though.
Joe:
Hey Josh,
Salt concentration will have no effect on nitrifying bacteria. And I agree that the Sera product is long gone, both from your water changes and it has probably broken down chemically, too.
It's got be caused by either too much decay (Aside from a dead fish or dirty filters, something else in the tank like gravel, driftwood, dying plants or decayed plant roots, etc). Or not enough aeration- Low oxygen levels will seriously hamper bacteria growth. Might be a good idea to temporarily add a few more airstones and see what happens.
I would also curb the large water changes, because you are removing free floating bacteria which will make the problem worse. Use a product like Kordon Amquel or Seachem Prime to reduce ammonia on a temporary basis. Might not be a bad idea to change or add some Zeolite, although this stuff is easily exhausted by high ammonia.
It's interesting that salt concentration has no effect on the bacteria system. I've had brackish systems and in order to bring a fish up to brackish that had been kept in pure fresh in LFS waters, you need to bring up the salinity slowly, as not to shock the fish. I guess I always assumed it would wipe the bacteria too.
Unfortunately, air stones are out of the picture, due to the oscars playing tether ball with anything plugged to a tube. I actually installed two air stones in my aquaclear filters before reading that the vibrations can harm the impellor or the filter over time, which makes sense.
One thing I thought of is lack of current at the bottom of the tank. When I had the ray, I purposefully kept the intake tubes short as not to suck up the sand. They are all still very short, the two AC's penetrating to about half the depth of the tank. I'm going to order some extention parts and if that doesn't stir things up at the bottom.
I'm really hoping and counting on this bacteria culture I ordered from biodigesters.net.
Time can only tell.
I hope these entries and these awesome comments from both Sherry and Joe will help others experiencing this same "newbie" problem.
Josh
Josh,
IMHO, the way I would approach this problem is by process of elimination.
- When did the problem start? What changed in the aquarium (more/less fish, decor, new equipment, change in husbandry, etc.) say +/- 3 weeks around the date when you first noticed the problem?
- For bioload, do you believe that if you had another tank the exact same size but was bare bottom and void of decor, would your existing filtration equipment be adequate?
Here are some of my other thoughts:
High ammonia with zero nitrites can only be caused by three things:
1) Bacteria population are low and yet established(not likely in your setup).
2) Not enough surface area to maintain bacteria populations (not likely either, unless the tank has ALWAYS had an ammonia problem).
3) A natural or man made bactericide that is killing off the bacteria.
I would bet on number 3. Perhaps heavy metals or other toxins in the sand are finally starting to leach. Also, city water may have changed in copper level, trihalomethanes, or other substances that act as antibiotics against nitrosomas.
My reply via email:
Hey Joe,
Thanks for the insightful comment on the blog. I think you nailed it on the head.
One, we can rule out the water as the other tanks are fine, the bacteria colonies perfectly on track. I even tested them all after major water changes -- a couple hours later and a couple days -- and no ammonia, no nitrite, some nitrates, right where it needed to be.
I spent a couple days thinking about what's changed and came up with two glaring issues:
One, I had used Sera "Toxivec" in some abundance when I realized I had not originally cycled the tank properly. This chemical made things works and may have screwed up something... it's been so long ago and I've done so many water changes, some up to 50%, it should be out of the system. But it's something I did that could have changed the chemistry.
Another thing, which I think is more likely, is I treated the tank with aquarium salt to prevent an ich outbreak. I used a lot... way too much. Fish were fine, but after awhile I got salt creep marching out of my cannister filter. Not good.
I diluted the water with about 4 50 percent water changes, 2 a week, and have done numerous other water changes over time, so it should be pure freshwater. However, I have not done a massive, 80 or 90% water change.
That's about it, though. I bought an aquaclear filter over ebay and also had a broken aquaclear motor replaced from the company. I don't see how that could cause these problems, though.
Joe:
Hey Josh,
Salt concentration will have no effect on nitrifying bacteria. And I agree that the Sera product is long gone, both from your water changes and it has probably broken down chemically, too.
It's got be caused by either too much decay (Aside from a dead fish or dirty filters, something else in the tank like gravel, driftwood, dying plants or decayed plant roots, etc). Or not enough aeration- Low oxygen levels will seriously hamper bacteria growth. Might be a good idea to temporarily add a few more airstones and see what happens.
I would also curb the large water changes, because you are removing free floating bacteria which will make the problem worse. Use a product like Kordon Amquel or Seachem Prime to reduce ammonia on a temporary basis. Might not be a bad idea to change or add some Zeolite, although this stuff is easily exhausted by high ammonia.
It's interesting that salt concentration has no effect on the bacteria system. I've had brackish systems and in order to bring a fish up to brackish that had been kept in pure fresh in LFS waters, you need to bring up the salinity slowly, as not to shock the fish. I guess I always assumed it would wipe the bacteria too.
Unfortunately, air stones are out of the picture, due to the oscars playing tether ball with anything plugged to a tube. I actually installed two air stones in my aquaclear filters before reading that the vibrations can harm the impellor or the filter over time, which makes sense.
One thing I thought of is lack of current at the bottom of the tank. When I had the ray, I purposefully kept the intake tubes short as not to suck up the sand. They are all still very short, the two AC's penetrating to about half the depth of the tank. I'm going to order some extention parts and if that doesn't stir things up at the bottom.
I'm really hoping and counting on this bacteria culture I ordered from biodigesters.net.
Time can only tell.
I hope these entries and these awesome comments from both Sherry and Joe will help others experiencing this same "newbie" problem.
Josh
1 Comments:
You can increase aeration quickly by adding a DIY sponge filter / portable lift tube. 18" of 1" dia PVC (or clear tubing) with a piece of sponge or filter material stuck in the bottom to prevent it from sucking things through. Just stand it upright and put the air tube in it with a fine diffuser - simple as that.
You can drill holes near the top for water exit and have the thing go all the way above the water level if you don't want fish to explore it (though that's pretty hard against the current).
To make something more permanent, make a base for it with 3 T intersections, or hang it over the top like a candy cane with 2 90-deg angles.
Base, from above, if you want to make a base - 3 T intersections (*), lift tube pointing toward the viewer.
|...|
*-*-*
|...|
Candy-cane style, 1 90-degree bend (@) and 1 T (*), tank wall denoted by "#"; be sure to drill holes near the top of the life tube for water to come out, or use a second T intersection. Cap off the dangling outside end.
*--@
|.#|
|.#
|.#
|.#
..#
###
These both cost under $3 for supplies and take about 5 minutes - sawing only (drilling optional), no gluing needed since PVC joints are very tight.
Note - to view ascii art better copy to a text editor that has fixed char widths, and replace periods with spaces.
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